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A telescope or a camera???


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Hi all,

 

I don't know how to start and explain my topic here as i feel like i fail to make it clear so people can help me if they can, so i will try my best anyway.

I have some scopes and some cameras i want to use for DSO imaging, but i am expanding and i planned that i like to go with multiple imaging setup, that will help me later i believe, but it is always about to choose the correct and right tools for that, and i like to have people opinions or suggestions or recommendations before i decide on anything, i might learn something from someone that can help me and not do a mistake, so i hope i can find that here.

 

I have the following scopes first:

  • 8" F/5 Newt, 6" F/4 Newt, 180mm Mak, TS Optics 90mm triplet, Askar FRA400, and ST80 if i can consider it as a scope for imaging [not anymore].

 

Following cameras for DSO only:

  • APS-C color [IMX571 sensor based], QHY294M Pro, QHY163M and ZWO ASI1600MM-C Pro.

 

Now i have a budget and will have more again later so i want to finish my setup of multiple as soon/fast as possible then i don't look back and get busy in imaging, so i am trying to have few combos that can match mostly for FOV, and my mind now settled only for WIDE field FOV to make, and i have one combo nice and i am trying to make same FOV with another combo but don't know how or with what, this combo i use as a standard is my Askar FRA400 + 0.7x reducer from them + QHY294M, and i am trying to find a scope to give me FOV using my APS-C camera, from that FOV site it shows that i need something in 330-350mm range, most likely it is of 70mm F/6 + 0.8x reducer, or even 70mm F/5 which is a quadruplet, so i have many options about going with 330-350 scope for my APS-C, there is also 0.65x reducer for my 90mm triplet, but i feel like i want to try something else.

 

My options are:

  1. Buying IMX571 mono, but then with what scope? if 90mm triplet then what i can do with QHY294M and Askar, i want to have different filters in each scope.
  2. Buying a 70mm scope making sure it is a triplet so i can use it with my color camera APS-C without much CA issues.
  3. Selling my ASI1600MM-C although it is new since last year and go with ASI294MM-C Pro so i can still use my high quality 1.25" filters [can't replace them].
  4. If selling that ASI1600mm then i should sell my old first cooled camera QHY163M also and upgrade again to QHY294M and buy Askar FRA400 again.
  5. Buying 2 60mm or 70mm doublet scopes to use with my ASI1600mm and QHY163M only and using narrowbanding filters only and not worry about Askar FRA400 or 90 triplet or QHY294M and APS-C cameras, use them for something else not wide field results.
  6. A full frame camera will match my 90mm triplet with flattener only, but many didn't recommend a full frame sensor, because of scope design, i was thinking about a color full frame so i don't need to use many filters, only one or two 2" which i have 1 already and can add another, not narrowbanding or LRGB filters.
  7. Buy much much wider scopes such as 200 or 135 or 230mm FL so i can use with any two or three cameras then crop them all after final stack to my liking frames of FOV, and later i might add better details from longer FL scopes to that frame to make it better, i don't like to do mosaic at all.
  8. Trying to use my DSLR lenses if possible, i also just hate to stop them down with weird spikes, i can use step down rings but only with threaded lenses, my Canon 300mm F2.8 IS lens doesn't have any front threaded mount size, very big similar to 100-120mm aperture scopes maybe, or if i have to keep them wide open such as F1.8 or F2 or F2.8 and use one of those high speed NB filters designed for that, because of light shift, but is that light shift only affected for narrowbanding and not LRGB/OSC?

 

I want to decide quickly before my budget is gone somewhere else out of my astro plan, and then wait again for another budget and still no decision, i am waiting nicer weather to come and winter, some of winter targets are out already but very late time, so in two months they will be out at good time, so i want to be ready this time, i only got my 90mm triplet and Askar both APO refr this year, but i was busy and it was so hot and humidity, so i stopped to continue my buying plan, one more combo and i will be ready, i have to be careful of what i choose so i don't regret later and trying to sell it or buy something else, i believe i will be happy with my 90mm triplet and Askar FRA400 for very long time without replacing them, also my cameras, it is just that time i bought QHY163M not many options around and i couldn't afford, only since last year i started to afford more because i saved money since 2018-2019 and i got more income sources by end of 2019 which helped me in 2020, many will say stop buying and focus on what i have, that isn't part of my plan, i was using one setup for 2-3 years and it was a waste of time and nightmare to just depend on one setup and keep that forever, not idea i want to do, we have many clear nights, but i don't have too much time to keep burning it several nights for one target to perfect and complete, so i found out if i have like 2 scopes/cameras combo at least then i can do that in less time and i keep going longer, since last 2 years i never bothered myself to complete any target next nights, only doing Ha or RGB in one night and stop there, i did with 2 or three targets for like 2-3 nights and i wasn't happy, so telling me about don't buy more use what you have is not the answer.

 

Sorry for this long topic, but i have to come to the a decision or answer so i can buy and then it will slow me down in my choices in future, thank you very much

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Hi Tareq, you may get a better response to your topic by asking succinct short questions. Quite honestly I wouldn’t know where to start with whatever you are asking if indeed it is a question in your thread.

Maybe somebody else could make sense of your issue 🙂 

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49 minutes ago, TerryMcK said:

Hi Tareq, you may get a better response to your topic by asking succinct short questions. Quite honestly I wouldn’t know where to start with whatever you are asking if indeed it is a question in your thread.

Maybe somebody else could make sense of your issue 🙂 

 

That is why i said i don't know if i know how to ask questions without much details or very short questions then i don't get correct answers and people think i only reject answers.

 

Anyway, All what i am trying to say is that i have the budget now and i keep going with buying plan, and for this i have either to buy a camera or a scope now, not both, i buy one now and buy the other later, i know exactly which camera to buy, but i don't know which scope to buy because it depends in the cameras i will buy or use anyway, but because i already have cameras so i was thinking if i should now get a scope first and later i add one more camera, and then there is also an option of replacing/upgrading my old camera and thus will change my scope choice again.

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Hi Tareq,

 

As I reread your post it throws up more questions than answers. The following is provided for clarification.

 

1. You appear to have decided on wide field imaging and are asking for mix and match equipment suggestions that will dovetail with your existing equipment inventory.

 

2. Your reference multiple imaging, are you suggesting you want to run more than one capture setup simultaneously.

 

3. You talk of working at f1.8-2.8, I consider this is a more specialist area that places higher demands on your focusing arrangements, backspacing and filter selection.

 

4. Most of your comments appear equipment centric as opposed to target specific. It would help if you specified the targets your are after photographing.

 

The range of equipment you list suggests you are already an accomplished imager, yet the context of your query seems a little confused.

 

I don’t understand how in your last entry you determined you start with a new camera when you already have a good range of cameras that are able to support your 300-400mm fl imaging aspiration. There are several good scopes available that will work with your current cameras at 200-400mm fl. A couple that would cover both ends would be the Redcat at 200mm and Esprit 80 at 400mm. However, there are plenty of similarly specified triplets to choose from.

 

Good luck with your search.

 

Martin

Edited by MartinS
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5 hours ago, MartinS said:

Hi Tareq,

 

As I reread your post it throws up more questions than answers. The following is provided for clarification.

 

1. You appear to have decided on wide field imaging and are asking for mix and match equipment suggestions that will dovetail with your existing equipment inventory.

 

2. Your reference multiple imaging, are you suggesting you want to run more than one capture setup simultaneously.

 

3. You talk of working at f1.8-2.8, I consider this is a more specialist area that places higher demands on your focusing arrangements, backspacing and filter selection.

 

4. Most of your comments appear equipment centric as opposed to target specific. It would help if you specified the targets your are after photographing.

 

The range of equipment you list suggests you are already an accomplished imager, yet the context of your query seems a little confused.

 

I don’t understand how in your last entry you determined you start with a new camera when you already have a good range of cameras that are able to support your 300-400mm fl imaging aspiration. There are several good scopes available that will work with your current cameras at 200-400mm fl. A couple that would cover both ends would be the Redcat at 200mm and Esprit 80 at 400mm. However, there are plenty of similarly specified triplets to choose from.

 

Good luck with your search.

 

Martin

 

Hi Martin,

 

Thank you very much for your reply, and i understand your points or questions you are asking according to my questions and topic itself, i said i don't know how to explain what i am looking for or after or the plan, and you are right, i will try to clarify most or all of my points as much i can.

 

First, i attached two images or results i did by end of 2020 [Nov & Dec], i made those only after i already ordered for a scope 90mm triplet 2-3 months earlier, and i felt like i rushed to order that scope, but then i thought about and i admit that the scope i ordered which is 90mm F/6 triplet is an amazing great scope and it shouldn't be gone only because of those results i made later.

 

Those two results were from my Achromatic scope Skywatcher ST80 + 0.8x reducer and ASI1600MM-C camera, so 320mm focal length with old sensor 4/3" [Panasonic], but i bought Askar FRA400 and QHY294M with 0.7x reducer which will give 280mm with newer 4/3" sensor, that is a perfect FOV, i wanted wider than 4/3" sensor and 320mm FL, in fact even with my Canon 300mm lens it was a bit wider than ST80[400mm] + 0.8x, so one combo is done which is Askar FRA400 + 0.7x reducer + QHY294M-Pro [4/3"], i have 2 cameras mono left which are Panasonic 4/3" thinking about selling them and upgrade if i can, and one color camera which is APS-C sensor, it means to match those of Askar and reducer i need focal length of 330mm minimum or about 345mm maximum at least.

 

I want that to have side by side dual imaging system, if more then better, but my mount maybe can't handle three scopes and cameras, so i will go with two for now and later i will buy another mount to add third combo or even another dual combo then i will have 4 scopes and cameras.

Flaming Star Nebula.png

HorseHead-Ha_2.png

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And here are another two targets i want to image also, you can see clearly how wide field it is, the standard or main setup i chose Askar FRA400 + 0.7x + 294 mono, for the M45 i chose another setup as 70mm F/6 + 0.8x reducer and APS-C such as ASI2600 camera, i do have another brand of same sensor IMX571 in ASI2600 or QHY268, and i did order the mono 2 days ago and still waiting, so i will have 3 new cameras, two of them are APS-C size.

 

For that Andromeda frame, i only chase Askar FRA400 + 0.7x as the scope, but i chose two different cameras, 294 and 2600 so 4/3" sensor and APS-C sensor, you can see the difference, if i use that APS-C sensor with Askar FRA400 and reducer then if i use another APS-C camera i have to buy same or another scope to give me exactly 280mm, a bit expensive for me now to buy only one scope over $1000, or buy a very wide which is small aperture scope for 4/3" to match it, i checked out and it shows me i need a scope with focal length of 230mm, i didn't see scope of that except scopes in lens design actually, which means i better ignore/pass that and use a lens then which i have.

 

My 90mm F/6 triplet can match or be closer to those FOV if i use either 0.65x reducer [APEX] or any refractor 0.6x reducer designed for F6, and from what i read, both will have issues using APS-C or larger, definitely i will not use 4/3" with this 90mm reduced, and then there are my two cameras QHY163M and ASI1600MM, didn't use them much really as last 2-3 years i was mostly doing planetary imaging and i didn't have APO nice scopes, didn't like to use my ST80 and DSLR lenses, so i kept only doing Ha/mono results for practice until 2020/2021 when i know i will have budget to buy and update/improve my equipment, i am not in rush to do imaging while my setup isn't complete or done yet, so i want to buy all what i can do for dual or multiple imaging setup to use them simultaneously.

astronomy_tools_fov1.png

astronomy_tools_fov (2).png

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For F1.8 and F2.8 i was referring to my DSLR lenses, i am not sure if i will use lenses again, and maybe only when doing narrowbanding i will have that light shift issue as i hear from very fast optics, while RGB isn't having this problem, so maybe i should use those lenses only with OSC and RGB data and no narrowbanding.

 

I got nice offers with Askar FRA400 to buy with reducer and also all good offers with my 4 latest cameras [QHY163M i bought in 2017 so it is not included into offers], this will help me to have more flexible gear to use and i never worry later if i grow up or if i want to buy something but it is out of stock or even discontinued one day, and that time not many sensors or scopes i can choose from back in 2017-2018, not even APS-C mono or full frame mono in CMOS, so the more i wait the more new things are coming and the more i keep changing in my plans and equipment even without much use, only from this year i will start to do imaging after getting the two APO, and will use my Newt scopes also, and i have to make more of dual imaging system as long i have many cameras already so i don't wait single night to finish one data only mainly of narrowbanding, even for RGB i hate to spend like 2-3 nights to have enough RGB[L] data under Bortle 8/9, with that dual imaging system i can make that like less time required.

 

If there is anything not clear yet please let me know, i still consider about having 1 or 2 more scopes at wider FOV then i can slow down in buying and more busy in imaging, for now with only one setup i am not interested to spend more than 2 nights to finish 1 target whatever it is unless i have more setup to finish them in 2-3 nights with enough great data, 8-10 hours per night for me is better than 10 hours in 3 nights, i only can have like 3-4 hours maximum per night in winter, sure it won't be always 3-4 hours steady clear and gear issue-free anyway.

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