Star of Bethlehem ???

[Skipper Billy]

'Star of Bethlehem' - I am seeing in the media more and more reports about next weeks conjunction being a re-run of the 'Star of Bethlehem'.

For a kick off they are NOT stars! Giving them poetic licence and ignoring that fact I looked the location of Jupiter and Saturn around the alleged date of the happening and they were nowhere near each other!! Not even close.

See attached and notice the date - Christmas Eve just before the 'event' - I also scrolled backwards and forwards a few years each way and they were never even close to conjunction !!

 

For the pedants - you are quite right my modern house was not there 2020 years ago!!!

[AstronomyUkraine]

Posted by: @skipper-billy

See attached and notice the date - Christmas Eve just before the 'event' - I also scrolled backwards and forwards a few years each way and they were never even close to conjunction !!

The only possible "star" in the East at that time is Saturn. Not that the ancients would have known the difference.

[Carastro]

Posted by: @skipper-billy

I looked the location of Jupiter and Saturn around the alleged date of the happening and they were nowhere near each other!! Not even close.

Not read right through the thread as yet, so this may have been mentioned before.  But there is considerable debate about the "actual" date and time of year.  Calendars were different then, and apparently there was no year 0.  Have seen several talks on the subject, the latest suggested that Saturn and Jupiter were indeed at a similar conjunction once the more probable date was worked out though I can't remember all the permutations and factors now, though here are some of the reasonings.

Census's were not taken in winter.

Shepherd's were not tending their flocks in the winter, but the flocks would have been in shelter somewhere.

https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-on-dec-25

 

Carole   

[Jkulin]

I agree Carole, there is so much tosh about the supposed event, I could go on and on, but from talking to most of my mates who are astronomers, the date of JC's birth could never have happened, when they said it did and how it did and who with.

[KevS]

This is quite a good read if you can find a copy. (ISBN 0-460-04343-9) Provides a fairly good analysis of all possible scenarios.

[RPK_Astro]

Ugh this is an annoying subject and it's difficult to know where to start with it...

Various people have tried to find some sort of astronomical event to 'explain' the story (there are some interesting issues here, for example the earliest likely date for the gospels to have been written is 70 - 90 CE... so where do the stories about the nativity come from? (In case you're wondering about the 'dates' being 70 - 90 CE there are references to events that didn't happen until after 68CE.) None of the alleged authors were there...). There is a conjunction that might be an explanation but it dates to 7 BCE (I think).

The Chinese kept detailed records. There were no 'guest stars' (bright comets) or novae/supernovae around then, nor did the Babylonians or Egyptians record anything.

My view is it's a piece of accreted mythology.

The December date was cultural appropriation of a mixture of things like the Saturnalia, Sol Invictus etc.