Is astrophotography possible with light pollution?

[gabs]

Hi all,

 

I am new to this forum and just starting to practise some astrophotography experiencies. So far except for some good pictures of the moon I haven't had good results.

 

I have been watching many tutorials and videos on the web and obviously all them are based on the idea to go somewhere without light pollution , however for someone that lives in a very polluted city like London it seems to be very difficult to get a good result.

 

does anybody think is still possible to do astrophotography when living in a city ?

 

maybe a light pollution filter would help?

 

I am using : a Canon EOS 18-55 mm lens ( and a remote shutter )

nikon D60 without remote shutter ( as i am unable to find a compatible one ! )

and no star tracker !!

 

if someone has any advice , tips etc..please contact me.

 

i am open to any suggestions especially for some good easy targets for beginners like me!

 

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

 

[Carastro]

I live in SE London (Bromley) and although limited I image from home certainly during the winter months when I can't get to a darker location, and all this year during the pandemic.

 

These days I use a Mono CCD camera, but I certainly started with a DSLR, and as you say a LP filter will help.

 

I constructed this website purely from images I have done from home Bortle 8.  Admittedly most are CCD but if you scrolled through there are some I did in the early days with a DSLR (see the Red Rosette, Butterfly Nebula done in 2012 and the Horsehead sitting next to it and all the lunar, solar, comet and planetary images and the Orion Nebula partly done with a DSLR and later enhanced with Ha from a CCD camera).

 

https://sites.google.com/view/carastroimaging/home

 

Obviously a tracking mount will help.  

 

Carole  

Edited March 6, 2021 by Carastro

[gabs]

Thanks Carole,

 

I live in SE too in Sydenham, so very are clooe and the same Bortle 8.  I normally go to South Norwood park by night to stargazing and ( of course ) in the back garden !

 

Your pictures are absolutely amazing and very nice website !

I wish to be able to get same result one day!

 

I would like to know about your techique and how many years of experiencies it needs to get good pictures.

 

if you have made any tutorial or if you want to suggest any easy target , I would really appreciate it a lot.

 

Thanks again  I hope we can keep in touch so we can discuss more.

 

Regards

 

[nickaltair]

Hi @gabsyes light pollution filters like Altair Triband can easily deal with Bortle 8 light pollution, here's an overview and there's an EOS version too

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by nickaltair

[gabs]

Thanks Nick,

 

I understand these filters cannot be use on a DSLR camera, unless I am wrong.

[paul]

8 hours ago, gabs said:

Thanks Nick,

 

I understand these filters cannot be use on a DSLR camera, unless I am wrong.

A DSLR can use all filters but the results will range from vey good to very poor depending on the type of filter and whether you camera is astro-modified or not.

 

Good for DSLR: Broad band filters like Light pollution filters let in as much of the visible and interesting light as they can while blocking out the frequencies emitted by sodium and mercury lights.  The CLS and L-Pro style are good choices. I've used a CLS clip-in for my DSLR for a long time and recently I've been using the L-Pro. 

 

Not bad for DSLRs but need patience: The Dual, Tri and Quad band filters that let light in at specific frequencies emitted by nebula and the like. They reject most of the light pollution but are not as sharp as narrow band filters. To get the most out of these you will need to mod the camera to let in more of the red light for hydrogen.

 

Single very narrow band filters should be avoided for colour cameras.

Edited March 7, 2021 by paul

[Carastro]

11 hours ago, gabs said:

Thanks Carole,

 

I live in SE too in Sydenham, so very are clooe and the same Bortle 8.  I normally go to South Norwood park by night to stargazing and ( of course ) in the back garden !

 

Your pictures are absolutely amazing and very nice website !

I wish to be able to get same result one day!

 

I would like to know about your techique and how many years of experiencies it needs to get good pictures.

 

if you have made any tutorial or if you want to suggest any easy target , I would really appreciate it a lot.

 

Thanks again  I hope we can keep in touch so we can discuss more.

 

Regards

 

If you look in my signature my regular website is quote there and if you click on it, you will find a page "How to image with a DSLR" (among many other pages where you might find useful info as well as the images I have done at Darker locations too.  My "How to" page was written when I was just getting into imaging starting in 2013 so it is a bit out of date, but at least tells it from a learners perspective.  I hardly ever use a DSLR these days having moved over to a Mono CCD camera a long time ago. 

 

Some of us go down to a Campsite in East Sussex (in normal times) where the skies are Bortle 4, so when things get back to normal, if you are interested in joining us (and have a car and camping gear) you would be welcome.

 

Carole  

[Carastro]

PS  It might be worth contacting Nick who has replied on this thread as he is the Sponsor of this website and one of the Owners of the Astro Retailer - Altair Astro, to ask him about what sort of filter will be suitable for your camera.  Again I am out of date with this as LED lights have come in since my time with a DSLR.  

 

Carole  

[Carastro]

Probably the easiest target for a beginner is the Orion Nebula but it is sinking fast to the West at this time of year so you might miss it unless you are quick.

 

I say easy because it is bright and you won't be taking very long exposures.  A few seconds should pick it up.

 

Carole 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Carastro

[gabs]

Thanks Carole,

 

to all your respond above.

 

Yes I've been told Orion is a good and easy target for beginners.

 

I have already tried couple of times without a good result though but I will try again.

 

Unfortunately I have no car ..I normally take my equipment with me on bike 🙂 .

 

Fingers crossed we will be back to normal soon..

 

I will definately have a better a look to your pics,  I am sure I have a lot to learn from you. 

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

[nickaltair]

On 3/7/2021 at 10:00 AM, gabs said:

Thanks Nick,

 

I understand these filters cannot be use on a DSLR camera, unless I am wrong.

Hi there, we make several Canon EOS light pollution filters. Here's a very quick rundown of the various options:

 

Firstly, the most popular of all, the CLS or City Light Suppression filter, of which there are two versions.

1) Skytech EOS CLS which is very affordable and covers all Bortle zones, but allows a bit more star colour, and hence skyglow, through than the TriBand and QuadBand. It can be used with more traditional processing techniques and is a very popular starter filter. 

2) SkyTech EOS CLS-CCD as above, but with UVIR cut for astro-modded cameras. Slightly more expensive as a result of those additional layers.

 

 

The SkyTech TriBand EOS Light Pollution filter will work great in Bortle 8 like central city areas, and has the highest level of artificial skyglow protection in our range, balanced with high transmission, while still being wide enough to work well with a fast DSLR lens or scope. It lets in Ha and both the Oiii bands, hence the "Tri".

 

 

Then we have the SkyTech QuadBand Canon EOS Filter (Bortle 5-1) which allows a bit more Sii through and still allows both Oiii bands through, hence the "quad" in the name. You get more light than the TriBand but it's a little more affected by severe light pollution.

 

 

And finally the SkyTech LPRO-MAX, which works at any light pollution level but is designed to give a more natural colour balance and allow star colours though, so it covers both reflection and emission nebulae, galaxies and so-on. The "Max" bit denotes UV IR blocking layers so it works with both modded and un-modded cameras.

 

 

That's all things EOS. The important thing is to choose which filter suits your circumstances and budget. Basic rule with filters is not to over-filter because the tighter the bandwidth the less light you get. 

If in doubt, just choose the CLS that's a great place to start and it's affordable too. They're available in 2" as well and some in 1.25" also.

 

Best of luck with your choice 🙂 

 

[nickaltair]

PS: Please excuse me if I don't respond straight away. We are extremely busy with some new products at the moment and I will always respond but may need a nudge every now and then 🙂

[TerryMcK]

One thing to bear in mind about clip in filters is the rear of the lens you have will hit the filter when it is installed. Any Canon EFS lens protrudes into the cavity too far to work with the filter. You can still use a Canon EF lens as that has a shorter housing, clears the clip in filter and I use an EF 50mm f1/8 on one of my astro modified Canon cameras. Of course if you want to fit your camera to a telescope then the clip in filter will work along with a suitable Canon adaptor to fit to the telescope.

Edited March 8, 2021 by TerryMcK

[gabs]

It seems that the Skytech EOS CLS filter is what I need.

 

However as I need to use it with a EFS 18-55 mm lens filter itself cannot be used with the lens.

 

As Terry  and Alatair website suggests the lens can strikes and damage the filter.

 

That is a slightly problem for me as I would like to use in both way ( with and without a lens ) so I can even installed on my scope with a T adapter.

 

 

 

[AstronomyUkraine]

1 hour ago, gabs said:

It seems that the Skytech EOS CLS filter is what I need.

 

However as I need to use it with a EFS 18-55 mm lens filter itself cannot be used with the lens.

 

As Terry  and Alatair website suggests the lens can strikes and damage the filter.

 

That is a slightly problem for me as I would like to use in both way ( with and without a lens ) so I can even installed on my scope with a T adapter.

Another option would be to buy a Canon EF 50 mm F/1.8 EF. A good secondhand one would cost less than a £100 on Ebay.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by AstronomyUkraine

[gabs]

does that means that only EF lens works with a Skytech EOS CLS filter but not an EF-S or EF-M ?

 

I am asking becuase  I just found a second hand EF 70-210 mm F 3.5 4.5 lens...is it any better than a EF 50 mm? 

[AstronomyUkraine]

2 hours ago, gabs said:

does that means that only EF lens works with a Skytech EOS CLS filter but not an EF-S or EF-M ?

 

I am asking becuase  I just found a second hand EF 70-210 mm F 3.5 4.5 lens...is it any better than a EF 50 mm? 

The clip in filter will only work with the EF lens, not the EFS.

 

Both of the lenses you mention are great for different types of image. The 50mm is ideal for wide angle images of the Milky Way etc, and with it being an f1.8 it is a very fast lens, meaning you can take shorter exposures, especially useful in a light polluted area. The 70-210 will be better for nebula and galaxies, but would need longer exposures due to the lens being a couple of stops slower than the 50mm.

Edited March 9, 2021 by AstronomyUkraine

[gabs]

thanks it makes perfeclty sense.

 

I have to say I learnt very good info reading your posts above.

 

Thanks all for being so kind.

 

My last question wouldbe if the filter can be used with T adapter so I can install the camera on my scope eyepiece, I will ask Nick.

 

 

[AstronomyUkraine]

5 hours ago, gabs said:

thanks it makes perfeclty sense.

 

I have to say I learnt very good info reading your posts above.

 

Thanks all for being so kind.

 

My last question wouldbe if the filter can be used with T adapter so I can install the camera on my scope eyepiece, I will ask Nick.

 

 

A clip in filter will not work on an eyepiece. Most eyepieces will accept 1.25"or 2" screw in filters.

Edited March 9, 2021 by AstronomyUkraine

[gabs]

Arghh that is a bit shame !

I am having lots of fun when I add my DSLR to my scope ;).

 

anyway I need to start in some way and definately a light pollution filter is something that  i really need it.

 

thanks.

[Stub Mandrel]

On 3/7/2021 at 6:45 PM, paul said:

A DSLR can use all filters but the results will range from vey good to very poor depending on the type of filter and whether you camera is astro-modified or not.

 

Good for DSLR: Broad band filters like Light pollution filters let in as much of the visible and interesting light as they can while blocking out the frequencies emitted by sodium and mercury lights.  The CLS and L-Pro style are good choices. I've used a CLS clip-in for my DSLR for a long time and recently I've been using the L-Pro. 

 

Not bad for DSLRs but need patience: The Dual, Tri and Quad band filters that let light in at specific frequencies emitted by nebula and the like. They reject most of the light pollution but are not as sharp as narrow band filters. To get the most out of these you will need to mod the camera to let in more of the red light for hydrogen.

 

Single very narrow band filters should be avoided for colour cameras.

This is very good advice, although I would add that a narrowband Ha filter works well with modified cameras.

[Carastro]

On 3/9/2021 at 11:10 AM, gabs said:

thanks it makes perfeclty sense.

 

I have to say I learnt very good info reading your posts above.

 

Thanks all for being so kind.

 

My last question wouldbe if the filter can be used with T adapter so I can install the camera on my scope eyepiece, I will ask Nick.

 

 

When using the camera with the telescope, don't use the eyepiece but insert the camera into the drawtube of the telescope by way of attaching a T adapter and T piece/coma corrector if using a Newtonian (not sure what scope you have). 

 

Carole 

 

 

 

 

[gabs]

Hi Carole,

 

I have attached pics of my set up (the cat in the background is not part of the equipment !)

Normally I use the port where I add the 45 grade prism, there I add my cam and with the T adapter. 
The camera itself cannot straight away into to drawtube, as you can see from the 2nd picture, it doesn't fit unless I find a different adapter.

 

So far that is what I am doing and I hope it's ok 🙂

 

Gabriele

 

[Carastro]

That's a step in the right direction, but I believe the ETX has a 1.25" drawtube so fitting a 2" camera into a 1.25 opening is somewhat of a challenge.  

 

I am not quite sure what you will be able to get out of this system as the ETX has a long focal length and therefore will be quite slow in terms of Deep sky Astrophotography, which means it will take longer to capture the photons, but if that is what you have to work with, then give it a go.  Nothing ventured.  Also I am not sure what sort of flat field you will get, but one step at a time.

 

Do you by any chance have the ability to attach the camera to the laptop?  (you might find you'll need a USB extension cable as the cables supplied with the camera are normally too short, especially if the telescope is slewing around.

 

Having the camera attached to capture software makes focus much easier and you can download the images directly to the laptop, plus setting up a capture sequence is much easier than fiddling around with those remote cable programmer things.  

 

Finally, just to say the ETX Alt/AZ mount is not the best for long exposure imaging due to the way it tracks, ideally you need an Equatorial mount.  But since you are not going to be doing really long exposures at this stage, it will certainly get you started. 

 

Carole  

 

Carole 

 

 

[gabs]

Hi,

I was thiking to use use my laptop hower the only issue I have is logistic as most of my equipment has to be with me on a bike ( lol ) or walking plus the additional issue that more stuff I am carrying with me more I attract people to get curious which I really don't want due to the pandemic circumstances and some people are not so genuine when they want to approach you as it just happended yesterday night.

Unfortunately that is something I am aware when you do stargazing in the park in south London.

When I am in my back garden I feel more relaxed. So next steps is to try to get a different scope, I recently realised the ETX has a little issue with the focus bolt especially when using barlow lens.

Altought I found very exicted to manage to see the M41 cluster yestarday night 😃😃