Telescope for a friend

[sgoody1]

Hi,

A few of us have clubbed together to buy a telescope for a friends 60th birthday.

I have been in conversations with FLO (who have been very helpful) - and think I have narrowed the choice down to three options:

 

1. Celestron Nexstar v4 SE (which may be a bit over budget - but looks to be a great piece of kit)

2.Sky-Watcher Explorer 130PS AZ GTi

3.Celestron Starsense Explorer DX 5"

 

My concerns are:

a. He will mainly be using it in the garden - he is a bit outside London, but there is still some light pollution

b. How important is it to have a motorised mount?  (He is unlikely to do photography through it, but I dont know if tracking is going to be hard without a motor)

c. He has limited patience - so will want something thats fairly easy to set up (less than 5 minutes), and find objects.  On that basis choice 3 sounds best with the phone app option, but that kit doesn't have a motor.

d. He mainly wants to view planets clearly, and some star clusters.  I am not even sure what might be visible.

 

And if you do recommend any of the above - what else would he need to have with it (eg is a dew shield essential / a Barlow lens or other lenses etc)

 

FYI - I have a Meade etx 90 (had it for probably over 20 years and only used it a handful of times.)- It doesn't give me anything like the kind of images I was hoping for - Saturn is just about a faint smudge with a tin you can just make out) - and I know he would ideally like to see some planets, and star clusters much clearer than that

 

So please - any help you can give (without confusing me too much more) - is greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Steve

 

[TerryMcK]

I think a Dobsonian like the Skywatcher 200P would be best as there is no need to polar align it and just point it at the sky.

Planets are currently low in the sky but you can see many things with a Dob. They do motorised Dobsonian's too that you can use to find objects but they are correspondingly more expensive.

[Marmot]

One consideration may be the size and portability: You have already stated that a quick set up is desirable and therefore I believe this would also mean something that has less bulk and can be moved about easily. At the same time, one that is less bulky is easier to store and can be accessed quicker and easier. All too many scopes are purchased as gifts, but are too complex and bulky and end up out of the way in the loft and then get forgotten about. When I was researching my first scope, Dosonians, as mentioned by Terry, came up a lot as being simple and good value.

If your friend has indicated an interest in Astronomy to you, he may also have mentioned the kind of scope that appeals to him. This would also give you a starting point as the different types of scope have differing strengths and weaknesses. If he hasn’t mentioned anything about favouring a particular type of scope, then maybe a little carefull and covert interrogation maybe advantageous😉

[sgoody1]

1 hour ago, Marmot said:

One consideration may be the size and portability: You have already stated that a quick set up is desirable and therefore I believe this would also mean something that has less bulk and can be moved about easily. At the same time, one that is less bulky is easier to store and can be accessed quicker and easier. All too many scopes are purchased as gifts, but are too complex and bulky and end up out of the way in the loft and then get forgotten about. When I was researching my first scope, Dosonians, as mentioned by Terry, came up a lot as being simple and good value.

If your friend has indicated an interest in Astronomy to you, he may also have mentioned the kind of scope that appeals to him. This would also give you a starting point as the different types of scope have differing strengths and weaknesses. If he hasn’t mentioned anything about favouring a particular type of scope, then maybe a little carefull and covert interrogation maybe advantageous😉

Thanks Marmot,

I have actually told him what we are getting - as in fact we did buy an Apple Watch, which he said he wouldn't use - so have a refund on that, and buying him the telescope.  So we have a budget of about £450, but could spend a bit more if necessary.  Bulk wont be a big problem, and its likely he will just use it in his back garden, possibly keeping it in a shed there.

The more I have been considering it - the more I think the Celestron Starsense Explorer DX 5" could be the way to go.  It looks easy to set up, and the phone app makes it very easy to locate particular targets.  And it has a 5 inch aperture.  What is your view on that one?

Edited July 11, 2021 by sgoody1

[sgoody1]

1 hour ago, Marmot said:

One consideration may be the size and portability: You have already stated that a quick set up is desirable and therefore I believe this would also mean something that has less bulk and can be moved about easily. At the same time, one that is less bulky is easier to store and can be accessed quicker and easier. All too many scopes are purchased as gifts, but are too complex and bulky and end up out of the way in the loft and then get forgotten about. When I was researching my first scope, Dosonians, as mentioned by Terry, came up a lot as being simple and good value.

If your friend has indicated an interest in Astronomy to you, he may also have mentioned the kind of scope that appeals to him. This would also give you a starting point as the different types of scope have differing strengths and weaknesses. If he hasn’t mentioned anything about favouring a particular type of scope, then maybe a little carefull and covert interrogation maybe advantageous😉

 

5 hours ago, TerryMcK said:

I think a Dobsonian like the Skywatcher 200P would be best as there is no need to polar align it and just point it at the sky.

Planets are currently low in the sky but you can see many things with a Dob. They do motorised Dobsonian's too that you can use to find objects but they are correspondingly more expensive.

Thanks Terry

He will need the kit of a telescope and tripod.  And has to be broadly in budget.  I think the one you are recommending is an 8 inch aperture, table top design.  Is that going to be easy to use?  I guess it means you always ned something to stand it on.  But I guess the bigger aperture is a big plus?

[Nightspore]

I'd go with something like a 3" - 4" ED refractor.

 

 

With a light but strong mount/tripod combination.

 

 

A refractor around this size will have more visual acuity and contrast than a reflector of equal or even slightly bigger aperture. It will be comparatively easy to set-up. 

 

 

Around an f/7 focal ratio will be much more versatile and capable of deep sky, rich field and lunar/planetary. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Nightspore

[Marmot]

I don’t have any experience of the Celestron Starsense system but a quick search on the net and it seems to get good reviews. I also note that the system is available with a variety of scopes, ( refractors, newtonians and cassegrains). The one you have mentioned appears to be a cassegrain, a type of scope I again don’t have experience of (I have only been doing this a few months and have a refractor). The all purpose, good at everything scope is like the holy grail and the different types excel at different things.

For this reason it’s worth having an understanding of your friends viewing interests. No one wants to spend money on a gift that falls short. When you look on the used market there are so many unwanted gifts or peoples first scopes that weren’t right and are being sold to be replaced with a different type. It sounds like he has indeed been honest with you about what he would use (eg not the watch), so it may be worthwhile asking him if he knows anything about the type of scope that appeals to him. 

I mention this as the Starsense system is available with a variety of scope types.

[TerryMcK]

5 hours ago, sgoody1 said:

 

Thanks Terry

He will need the kit of a telescope and tripod.  And has to be broadly in budget.  I think the one you are recommending is an 8 inch aperture, table top design.  Is that going to be easy to use?  I guess it means you always ned something to stand it on.  But I guess the bigger aperture is a big plus?

Far from table top design. You would need a big table 🙂

The 200P is an 8” aperture or 203mm diameter x1200 mm focal length and comes complete with a floor mounted stand. It’s just over  4 feet 2” high if that gives you an idea of its size

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by TerryMcK

[sgoody1]

3 hours ago, Marmot said:

I don’t have any experience of the Celestron Starsense system but a quick search on the net and it seems to get good reviews. I also note that the system is available with a variety of scopes, ( refractors, newtonians and cassegrains). The one you have mentioned appears to be a cassegrain, a type of scope I again don’t have experience of (I have only been doing this a few months and have a refractor). The all purpose, good at everything scope is like the holy grail and the different types excel at different things.

For this reason it’s worth having an understanding of your friends viewing interests. No one wants to spend money on a gift that falls short. When you look on the used market there are so many unwanted gifts or peoples first scopes that weren’t right and are being sold to be replaced with a different type. It sounds like he has indeed been honest with you about what he would use (eg not the watch), so it may be worthwhile asking him if he knows anything about the type of scope that appeals to him. 

I mention this as the Starsense system is available with a variety of scope types.

Thanks Marmot,

I have been asking him, but as he hasn't had much experience with telescopes, he doesn't really know what he wants.  I do know he wants to be able to have a good clear view of Jupiter and its moons, for instance - and able to clearly see the rings of Saturn well.  I dont know if he will be able to see other more distant objects (Galaxies and other clusters?) - but if he could that would excite him.  And ideally find them without too much trouble.  And if he does find them, is it then easy to track manually?  He is not into photography - so perhaps manual tracking is fine so long as its not so hard.

Given all of the above - I think he needs the biggest aperture he can get with good eyepieces, and a system that is easy to set up and find objects

[Nightspore]

Refractors and reflectors are quite different in many ways. Patrick Moore always reckoned a good 4" refractor was as good if not better than a 6" reflector.

 

 

I like my 150mm Newtonian, and it will have greater resolution than my 102mm Starwave refractor. But the Starwave has S-FPL53 Ohara glass. Admittedly it cost three times the amount of the Newtonian. The Starwave is sharper and has much better contrast, as most refractors do. I viewed the Mars opposition last year with both scopes. It comes down to whether you want better resolution or a sharper more defined and contrasted image. 

 

 

I can see the Cassini Division in the rings of Saturn with the 60mm Altair ED refractor below.

 

 

It isn't always about size.

 

 

The telescope that's enjoyed the most is the telescope that gets out the most. My 127mm Mak is great for the Moon, but like most cat's it isn't that good for deep sky or rich field. It has a slow focal ratio.

 

 

The best all-round scope is a refractor around f/7 and preferably containing ED glass. I only use doublets as I'm not interested in AP. A good ED doublet will cool down quickly and have very little chromatic aberration, if any that can be seen with the human eye. My 127mm Maksutov (above with binoviewer) takes a good hour standing outside before I can even use it. My 235mm SCT can take even longer. Cat's have a microclimate inside the OTA and this has to acclimatise to external conditions. Otherwise the image will not be sharp. Refractors, particularly doublets, don't really suffer from this. My 150mm Newtonian needs at least 40 mins depending on conditions to cool down enough to use. By the time I have the diagonal in any of my refractors they're good to go. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Nightspore

[sgoody1]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:20 PM, Nightspore said:

Refractors and reflectors are quite different in many ways. Patrick Moore always reckoned a good 4" refractor was as good if not better than a 6" reflector.

 

I like my 150mm Newtonian, and it will have greater resolution than my 102mm Starwave refractor. But the Starwave has S-FPL53 Ohara glass. Admittedly it cost three times the amount of the Newtonian. The Starwave is sharper and has much better contrast, as most refractors do. I viewed the Mars opposition last year with both scopes. It comes down to whether you want better resolution or a sharper more defined and contrasted image. 

 

I can see the Cassini Division in the rings of Saturn with the 60mm Altair ED refractor below.

 

It isn't always about size.

 

The telescope that's enjoyed the most is the telescope that gets out the most. My 127mm Mak is great for the Moon, but like most cat's it isn't that good for deep sky or rich field. It has a slow focal ratio.

 

The best all-round scope is a refractor around f/7 and preferably containing ED glass. I only use doublets as I'm not interested in AP. A good ED doublet will cool down quickly and have very little chromatic aberration, if any that can be seen with the human eye. My 127mm Maksutov (above with binoviewer) takes a good hour standing outside before I can even use it. My 235mm SCT can take even longer. Cat's have a microclimate inside the OTA and this has to acclimatise to external conditions. Otherwise the image will not be sharp. Refractors, particularly doublets, don't really suffer from this. My 150mm Newtonian needs at least 40 mins depending on conditions to cool down enough to use. By the time I have the diagonal in any of my refractors they're good to go. 

Thank you for your really comprehensive reply.  Great ideas there - but unfortunately I have ordered the 5” Schmidt-Cassegrain optical tube—Celestron The Starsense explorer -     I just thought it looked the easiest, quite compact, with a good aperture.  The Push to functionality using an App - just looks simple, and fun.  Anyway - there is the opportunity to return it if not satisfied - so we will see how he gets on.  Thanks again everyone for all your help. (I think I may be next in line to buy myself a telescope too)

[Nightspore]

1 hour ago, sgoody1 said:

Thank you for your really comprehensive reply.  Great ideas there - but unfortunately I have ordered the 5” Schmidt-Cassegrain optical tube—Celestron The Starsense explorer -     I just thought it looked the easiest, quite compact, with a good aperture.  The Push to functionality using an App - just looks simple, and fun.  Anyway - there is the opportunity to return it if not satisfied - so we will see how he gets on.  Thanks again everyone for all your help. (I think I may be next in line to buy myself a telescope too)

 

SCT's are cool. Even if they take some time to cool down lol. I'd still prefer a 3" doublet over a 5" cat', but that's me. Remember that reflectors have an obstruction/secondary mirror. Apart from the fact Newt's and SCT's require these mirrors to be collimated the obstruction interferes with contrast.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Nightspore