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ASIAIR Pro - First Impressions


paulgrover68

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I've been using APT to on my laptop to run imaging sessions and iPolar to PA. Power distribution and dew control has been managed by my Pegasus Pocket Box. It's all been pretty good.

I have a second mount on order and I decided that I would build and entire second rig over the course of a year or so. 

Rather than a second laptop or trying to split workload on one I decided to go the ASIAIR route.  I felt like a bit of leap in the dark. (was that a pun?)

Last night was probably not the best one try it as it was bitterly cold.

But here's my first impression.

I decided to try it first in station mode, I had wifi repeater on my rig so hooked up to that.  After a while the connection kept dropping (I suspect the repeater). So I swapped back to hotspot and it stabilised.

First attempts at polar alignment failed to plate solve, for no obvious reason. In the end I powered everything down and it started to work on restart.

Polar Alignment

This is a chore. The lag of it taking exposures plus Skywatcher's infamous bolts make it tricky and too easy to overshoot. Having a timer on it is really irritating.  Without doubt iPolar is faster.

Plate Solving & Slewing

 

This works very quickly and the list of objects really handy.  There are many I had not seen before.  I do miss using Stellarium for framing, I hope that adding Sky Safari will assist with this process. I have to say to it was super accurate and centred every object in two steps.

Guiding

Easy to setup and accurate. Scaling does give a flattering view of the graph, but I would say it's better than I've been getting with PHD2 on the laptop (more accurate PA or better out of the box settings?).

Focusing

 

Not sure how the graphs work... but I eyeballed it off a bhatinov mask. All good.

Image Capture

Again easy. The progress through the plan and each exposure are nicely represented by graphics

Camera Management 

Very easy. Cooling works quickly and all settings are easily accessible. No warming aid, so you just set the temperatue to where you want it to go to.

Calibration Frames


Can't comment - didn't shoot any. Flats look like they might be interesting...

 

Software overall

The software is pretty good, but sometimes I was finding myself in screens and could not get back to where I came from. This could just be a familiarity, because the software isn't difficult. I have an older iPad (2014) and it runs fine - some elements are a little slow. I may try it on my phone and upgrade the tablet if needed.

Physical mounting and cables.

I've mounted it on the finder shoe of the 130 'frac.  it's out of the way and close where it needs to be. No doubt it tidies the cables as it is close to the cameras.  I opted to use 2 power supplies. Both 12 volt 5w.  One went to the PBB to power the mount and  dew heaters. The other went to the ASI an powered the camera from there.  Before the ASI my rig could peak around 3 amps when slewing with both dew heaters running. Given the ASI likes around 2 amps I figured this was a safe move.  I'll be swapping to a 10 amp PSU next months and running into the PBB-Mount. PBB - ASIAIR - CAMERA.

I do miss the PBB's environmental monitoring capabilities.

My initial impression

I had my doubts, but the first outing was favourable. There are definite workflow gains and these generally outweigh the losses.  Setup is reduced because everything is plugged in and you don't have to setup a laptop. I need to improve polar alignment. I can always go back to iPolar using an old 10 inch netbook if necessary (this would not be a good option as it would offset some gains)

I think my biggest fear was changing from a known quantity to a new way of working. Having done a test run I'm pretty certain the ASI is more than capable and I think I'll come to appreciate it more as time goes by.

I'll update this if I encounter any new revelations or issues. I would welcome any advice on using the red box too!

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Interesting report Paul. Something that's on my todo list (but possibly with a RPi rather than ASIAir) once I've climbed a bit further up my current set of learning curves 🙂 

The PA lag is a concern for a portable rig.

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Isn't there a tick box to make it auto refresh on PA ?

image.thumb.png.48d74e15308a60080e676d8539c2cfd5.png

Edited by GazAstro
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There is. I used that. It takes a 1 second exposure, then updates the display. I found that where I'm used the immediate feedback iPolar provides, this process you have make smaller movements and time them with refreshes.  I think it's a technique thing rather than a failing in the system.  The inherent inconsistency of the EQ6 bolts are really the core issues - big adjustment... no movement... small adjustment... flies halfway across the sky!

In some ways I think this could be seen as a small issue as I would not have noticed it had I not been used to iPolar.  

Edited by paulgrover68
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Great write up on the ASIAir Paul. I don’t have the EQ6 but have the HEQ5pro also with equally silly adjusting bolts. I replaced them with stainless steel M10 hex bolts. I think they are 70mm long and found that it is much easier to adjust. I ground a dome on the threaded ends, just like the SW ones, as that gives a single point contact on the location face inside the mount which of course changes angle as it climbs or falls.

 

To adjust I have a 17mm combination spanner fixed to the pier with a couple of magnets. This arrangement gives a much more controllable adjustment.

However I still have problems remembering which bolts to turn 🙂 probably an age thing. I use the Polemaster as I’ve had it quite a while now.

 

Just remembered the hex bolts don’t create any snagging points for cable management unlike the SW ones which were always snagging cables.

Edited by TerryMcK
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2 hours ago, paulgrover68 said:

There is. I used that. It takes a 1 second exposure, then updates the display. I found that where I'm used the immediate feedback iPolar provides, this process you have make smaller movements and time them with refreshes.  I think it's a technique thing rather than a failing in the system.  The inherent inconsistency of the EQ6 bolts are really the core issues - big adjustment... no movement... small adjustment... flies halfway across the sky!

In some ways I think this could be seen as a small issue as I would not have noticed it had I not been used to iPolar.  

What I find helps in adjusting for PA, is to slacken off slighty, the knurled knob that holds the tripod to the mount. This makes adjusting the AZ bolts a lot easier. Once the AZ adjustments have been made, tighten up the large knob. Sometimes the alt bolts might need a slight adjustment after tightening the knob, but I find this works great with my EQ6 and Sharpcap.

 

Brian

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@AstronomyUkraineYes Brian I agree, you really need to do this. But I also find that if you open them more than a 'smidge', the mount head is no longer held firm on the mounting plate, and can rock alarmingly from side to side.

 

@paulgrover68I think it definitely is a technique thing. As I only ever set up on the patio slabs in my back yard, I find that by being careful where I put the tripod I rarely have to adjust altitude. The brain now knows that to adjust left you twist the left knob and vice-versa! 

 

(talking about a HEQ5 by the way)

Edited by Padraic M
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2 minutes ago, Padraic M said:

Yes Brian I agree, you really need to do this. But I also find that if you open them more than a 'smidge', the mount head is no longer held firm on the mounting plate, and can rock alarmingly from side to side.

I'm talking about 1/16 of a turn, just enough to take pressure off the mount. It is one of the biggest faults with Skywatcher mounts, after years of people complaining about it, you would think Skywatcher would have addressed the problem. Redesigning the mount shouldn't be that difficult to do.

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26 minutes ago, AstronomyUkraine said:

I'm talking about 1/16 of a turn, just enough to take pressure off the mount. It is one of the biggest faults with Skywatcher mounts, after years of people complaining about it, you would think Skywatcher would have addressed the problem. Redesigning the mount shouldn't be that difficult to do.

Agreed. And the up-selling argument 'just upgrade to a bigger mount' doesn't hold water if the EQ6 has the same issues. And it's a big jump to an EQ8. Would much prefer to go for a CEM40/70.

 

I imagine that Skywatcher/Synta have closed out that design years ago and now it's a matter of pumping out as many of them as possible. 

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4 minutes ago, Padraic M said:

Agreed. And the up-selling argument 'just upgrade to a bigger mount' doesn't hold water if the EQ6 has the same issues. And it's a big jump to an EQ8. Would much prefer to go for a CEM40/70.

 

I imagine that Skywatcher/Synta have closed out that design years ago and now it's a matter of pumping out as many of them as possible. 

I believe the EQ6-R has the same problems with bolts, so no excuses for not sorting the problem out.

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There is a lot of useful points here - I recently stumbled on the centre bolt loosen. I couldn't believe I had not thought of it before.  I recently discovered the azimuth pin had worked loose and was causing big jumps.

For PA I generally setup i in the same position (More or less). I found that if I point axis at my bathroom window, polaris won't be far away.  It was interesting when I had the issue with the chewed tab it was just falling short of that small adjust in altitude.

 

 

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1 hour ago, AstronomyUkraine said:

I believe the EQ6-R has the same problems with bolts, so no excuses for not sorting the problem out.

Do you know if they revised the postion of the lug the bolts push against? The angle that sits at above 50 degrees seems to be  contributing factor (also it is made from cheese)

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40 minutes ago, paulgrover68 said:

Do you know if they revised the postion of the lug the bolts push against? The angle that sits at above 50 degrees seems to be  contributing factor (also it is made from cheese)

Nope, the people who bought the EQ6 R, still have the same complaint about adjusting the alt and az bolts for PA. The main problem is still the alt bolt on the back of the mount. This is the adjustment on an EQ8. I would pay extra to have this on an EQ6.

 

file1370093907.jpg.97e096e9ce0f08e7e761944075a7307f.jpg

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Absolutly - The EQ-6 Pro isn't really a first mount so buyers would appreciate and pay extra for a better system.  I know I would.

An update on my ASI experience.  Everything went well tonight. PA took 8 minutes, mainly because I confused myself.

I shot some moon video - it has a teal tint courtesy of my filter!.  Solved an image from last night and slewed in.

Setup time is notiably reduced, especially now all cables are in place and managed.

Best bit - Plate solving is very quick and accurate.

So I've gone from slighty wary, through cautiously accepting and in

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Good write up, interesting to see how it all works out for you.

The AZ-EQ6 has a much better bolt for Altitude but the worm gear on the EQ8 just has to be better.

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6 hours ago, MarkAR said:

Good write up, interesting to see how it all works out for you.

The AZ-EQ6 has a much better bolt for Altitude but the worm gear on the EQ8 just has to be better.

The price difference between the EQ6 R, and the EQ8 is around £3000, surely Skywatcher could build a mount somewhere in the middle with better design features.

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On 4/17/2021 at 9:01 AM, AstronomyUkraine said:

The price difference between the EQ6 R, and the EQ8 is around £3000, surely Skywatcher could build a mount somewhere in the middle with better design features.

An EQ7 or just change things on the EQ6.👍

 

Edited by MarkAR
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8 hours ago, MarkAR said:

An EQ7 or just change things on the EQ6.👍

 

Ioptron have an excellent range of mounts, I think my next mount will be a 40EC or a 70EC if they ever come to Europe.

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32 minutes ago, AstronomyUkraine said:

Ioptron have an excellent range of mounts, I think my next mount will be a 40EC or a 70EC if they ever come to Europe.

I'm tempted too. You can get them from Germany.

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31 minutes ago, Padraic M said:

I'm tempted too. You can get them from Germany.

I can get the 70, but the 70EC is not available yet.

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4 hours ago, AstronomyUkraine said:

Ioptron have an excellent range of mounts, I think my next mount will be a 40EC or a 70EC if they ever come to Europe.

After a few recent irks with my mount I was considering a CEM70 as well.

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4 minutes ago, MarkAR said:

After a few recent irks with my mount I was considering a CEM70 as well.

They look very sturdy with a good load capacity. In Europe the standard version is 2770 Euro, the iguider version is 3200. Not sure I want to pay 430 Euro for a built in guider, when I already have a guide setup.

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A good write up.  I agree navigating the interface is different but I really find it fun and quick  to use. Auto focus has worked really well for me too. I have mine permanently attached to my refractor with all cables ready to plug into the HEQ5 and power box.   I'm now thinking of the best way to quickly change over to the 150mm reflector for when I want more reach.

 

I've used the ASIPro with a dedicated camera and a DSLR. With the DSLR I ran out of USB ports - I'm going to add a small usb hub to the base of the camera to emulate the dedicated camera.

 

The one thing that might improve your experience is a wifi adapter!! ZWO now sell a rebadged adapter that improves the signal strength which may make your PA experience more pleasant. I'm certainly considering it although it galls me that your need to think about this add-on. It plugs in to the ethernet port and one of the 12v outputs. Thankfully they don't add insult to injury with a big price hike. Its the same adapter that is used to make games consoles wireless. The potential benefit would be improved frame rates and less work for the RPi as it doesn't need to resend so much. If I get one I'll let you know my experiences

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I tried it with a new 8th Gen iPad (mine 4th gen... 2013 I think). The response rate was far better - most noticeable on focusing,  I'm going to check out the WiFi adapter as some extra range would allow me to monitor from indoors.
 

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